Post by Summer on Nov 5, 2007 22:34:55 GMT -5
spies4Masaki (8:49:39 PM): Hi!
spies4Summer (8:50:13 PM): Hi Masaki
spies4Masaki (8:50:24 PM): Hey, what're your thoughts on Cain?
spies4Masaki (8:50:36 PM): What do you think the chances of him being the last Traditionalist are?
spies4Summer (8:50:39 PM): There's a very good case for him in the burg
spies4Summer (8:50:49 PM): It would be illogical to ignore something so fact-based
spies4Masaki (8:51:03 PM): I agree on that, but there's a reason I'm asking what you think
spies4Masaki (8:51:19 PM): do you think it's safe to assume he's the last Traditionalist?
spies4Summer (8:51:35 PM): It's not safe to assume anything
spies4Summer (8:51:42 PM): But everything he's done so far fits
spies4Masaki (8:52:00 PM): Right, I agree with you there,
spies4Masaki (8:52:08 PM): Adelaide, however, seems to be dead certain he's the last Trad
spies4Summer (8:52:23 PM): She's been obsessed with the idea of Cain as a spy since round 1
spies4Masaki (8:52:22 PM): But my idea was,
spies4Summer (8:52:30 PM): She even voted for him in round 2
spies4Masaki (8:52:40 PM): It might be best to leave the last Traditionalist alone and focus on the Orthodoxy
spies4Masaki (8:52:56 PM): My reason is that eliminating the last Traditionalist will remove a hindrance for the Spies
spies4Summer (8:53:02 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:53:15 PM): While both groups remain, there is still a chance that they can hit eachother and therefore save us both an imprisonment and an exile
spies4Summer (8:53:35 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:53:49 PM): They save us an imprisonment because they take out a Spy rather than a Citizen, and an exile because we can instead use that exile that would have previously been used on the Spy on someone who we think could be another Spy.
spies4Summer (8:54:00 PM): I see what you're saying
spies4Summer (8:54:15 PM): There's just one small problem
spies4Masaki (8:54:23 PM): So while it might not be safe to assume Cain is the last Traditionalist, I think we should focus on the other team until they are balanced
spies4Masaki (8:54:26 PM): What's that?
spies4Summer (8:54:31 PM): What if it's not Cain after all?
spies4Masaki (8:54:40 PM): Right - we can't assume
spies4Masaki (8:54:50 PM): But don't we have some Orthodoxy suspects?
spies4Summer (8:54:55 PM): Honestly?
spies4Summer (8:55:02 PM): The group in general?
spies4Summer (8:55:02 PM): No
spies4Summer (8:55:13 PM): We've been given the last 3 exiles
spies4Summer (8:55:17 PM): They were handed to us
spies4Masaki (8:55:20 PM): Very true
spies4Summer (8:55:24 PM): Except for Cain, no one else has seriously been considered
spies4Summer (8:55:39 PM): And very few people are contemplating who is an Orthodoxy spy
spies4Summer (8:55:41 PM): Some are
spies4Summer (8:55:43 PM): But as a whole, no
spies4Summer (8:55:52 PM): The group is waiting for someone to be given an investigation
spies4Summer (8:55:57 PM): And that's my view of the truth.
spies4Masaki (8:56:08 PM): Well I'm hoping we have something by next exile
spies4Summer (8:56:15 PM): We won't
spies4Summer (8:56:25 PM): It will be Cain because no one will think of a new idea until he's gone
spies4Masaki (8:56:24 PM): No, no, not an investigation, but some leads at the very least.
spies4Masaki (8:56:30 PM):
spies4Summer (8:56:34 PM): This is why Naomi had to leave
spies4Summer (8:56:45 PM): Because as long as she was still here, no one would focus on who the other spies were
spies4Summer (8:56:54 PM): It will be the same with Cain.
spies4Summer (8:56:55 PM): Just watch.
spies4Summer (8:57:06 PM): I don't approve
spies4Masaki (8:57:13 PM): You do not approve of what?
spies4Summer (8:57:32 PM): Of the group mentality that we only need to think about the next exile and not the next 2 or 3
spies4Masaki (8:58:14 PM): So you're saying you would like to go with the plan, but simply don't think it would fly?
spies4Summer (8:58:32 PM): I'm saying that people need to start talking about the orthodoxy spies now.
spies4Summer (8:58:39 PM): Not after Bunni's trial and Cain leaves
spies4Summer (8:58:40 PM): Now.
spies4Masaki (8:58:43 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:58:48 PM): Well Adelaide at least agrees with me
spies4Masaki (8:58:54 PM): I think it's worth a shot
spies4Masaki (8:59:12 PM): We don't accomplish anything by being resigned to what we think will be the outcome
spies4Masaki (8:59:28 PM): We have a tool and we should use it, I think.
spies4Summer (8:59:34 PM): What's the tool?
spies4Masaki (8:59:39 PM): The opposing Spy teams
spies4Summer (8:59:45 PM): Ah
spies4Masaki (8:59:53 PM): If Cain does wind up being the last one, we lose it
spies4Summer (8:59:55 PM): So who do you propose, Masaki?
spies4Summer (9:00:00 PM): If not Cain, then who?
spies4Summer (9:00:01 PM): And why?
spies4Summer (9:00:10 PM): You'll never pull this off without a solid alternative
spies4Masaki (9:00:24 PM): Very true, that's why I asked if we had any suspects, so we should start working on it I think
spies4Masaki (9:00:31 PM): We still have a few days before the next episode begins.
spies4Masaki (9:00:45 PM): We could possibly draw something from the Naomi/Beverly vote
spies4Masaki (9:00:55 PM): But I don't want to falsely accuse anyone, either.
spies4Summer (9:01:14 PM): Then you won't get anywhere.
spies4Masaki (9:01:22 PM): Hm?
spies4Summer (9:01:28 PM): Is Cain being falsely accused?
spies4Summer (9:01:29 PM): I don't know
spies4Summer (9:01:32 PM): But he's being accused
spies4Summer (9:01:40 PM): That's a good thing
spies4Masaki (9:01:49 PM): Well Summer, there is a difference between not wanting to do something, and thus trying your best not to while doing what needs to be done anyway.
spies4Masaki (9:01:51 PM):
spies4Summer (9:02:08 PM): What?
spies4Masaki (9:02:19 PM): I don't want to falsely accuse someone, so I will try my best to accuse accurately
spies4Summer (9:02:29 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:03:01 PM): Anyway, would you mind giving the Orthodoxy some thought yourself over the next few days?
spies4Summer (9:03:17 PM): Already have.
spies4Masaki (9:03:17 PM): I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts
spies4Masaki (9:03:19 PM): Oh?
spies4Summer (9:03:22 PM): Surprise
spies4Masaki (9:03:32 PM): And what've you come up with?
spies4Summer (9:03:38 PM): Leon
spies4Masaki (9:03:44 PM): That's what Adelaide said
spies4Summer (9:03:51 PM): Great minds think alike
spies4Masaki (9:03:55 PM): That's Candy's line
spies4Summer (9:04:05 PM): I don't think she thinks anyone's mind is as great as hers
spies4Masaki (9:04:14 PM): She said it about me when I exposed Angelica's lie!
spies4Summer (9:04:25 PM): Oh
spies4Masaki (9:04:32 PM): Anyway, why Leon?
spies4Masaki (9:04:37 PM): She never got into the why.
spies4Summer (9:04:53 PM): Few reasons
spies4Summer (9:05:01 PM): The way he handled the investigation thread
spies4Summer (9:05:10 PM): "I want someone to investigate me so if I come up a spy I'll know they're lying"
spies4Summer (9:05:21 PM): And then how he had his defense ready when Singe accused him
spies4Summer (9:05:28 PM): By running to Candy and saying Singe must be a spy
spies4Summer (9:05:35 PM): That's #1
spies4Masaki (9:05:37 PM): Oh, right, I forgot about that one.
spies4Summer (9:06:08 PM): #2 being that he was both a vote for Martha in round 1 (sort of)
spies4Summer (9:06:28 PM): All 4 spies so far have shown that exiling Martha was a priority
spies4Masaki (9:06:48 PM): Naomi voted Bev
spies4Masaki (9:06:49 PM): I thought
spies4Summer (9:06:56 PM): You, Naomi, and Leon voted for Beverly which allowed Martha to keep the majority over Kiyoshi
spies4Summer (9:07:06 PM): If you had all voted Kiyoshi Martha would have stayed
spies4Masaki (9:07:09 PM): We were in Martha's family
spies4Masaki (9:07:12 PM): We couldn't vote her
spies4Summer (9:07:15 PM): You had an alternative
spies4Masaki (9:07:16 PM): Oh
spies4Summer (9:07:20 PM): You could have voted Kiyoshi and kept Martha
spies4Summer (9:07:26 PM): If you had the votes woudl have been 16-15
spies4Summer (9:07:29 PM): Kiyoshi - Martha
spies4Masaki (9:07:30 PM): Well, to be fair,
spies4Masaki (9:07:41 PM): In the chat hosted by Jeremiah,
spies4Summer (9:07:47 PM): I read it
spies4Summer (9:07:49 PM): I was there
spies4Masaki (9:07:51 PM): Ok
spies4Summer (9:08:03 PM): It doesn't matter who suggested it, if it was Naomi or him
spies4Summer (9:08:10 PM): He could have suggested it or been thrilled to go along with it
spies4Masaki (9:08:14 PM): We ll we were opposed to the inactive route
spies4Summer (9:08:24 PM): Well Spies generally are
spies4Summer (9:08:39 PM): They had one less citizen to deal with because Kiyoshi's removal was a freebie
spies4Masaki (9:08:40 PM): Reason I was wound up being a valid one, Kiyoshi was force removed and thus saved us an exile
spies4Masaki (9:08:45 PM): Leon had his own reasons though
spies4Summer (9:08:54 PM): It doesn't save you an exile
spies4Masaki (9:09:00 PM): It did
spies4Summer (9:09:02 PM): It gives the spies one less exile to get through
spies4Summer (9:09:09 PM): Right now there are 3 spies left
spies4Summer (9:09:12 PM): And 13 citizens
spies4Summer (9:09:19 PM): If Kiyoshi was still here there would be 14 citizens
spies4Summer (9:09:28 PM): Kiyoshi's removal was a freebie
spies4Masaki (9:09:45 PM): That early in the game, though, there's equal chance of him being a Spy
spies4Masaki (9:09:48 PM): Well not equal
spies4Summer (9:09:54 PM): They didn't know there were 2 spy sides at the time
spies4Masaki (9:09:56 PM): But no less of a chance than if we had exiled someone at random
spies4Summer (9:10:08 PM): What part of this isn't making sense to you?
spies4Summer (9:10:16 PM): Exile 1 - Martha went
spies4Summer (9:10:19 PM): Exile 2 - Grace went
spies4Summer (9:10:24 PM): As a bonus, Kiyoshi was removed
spies4Masaki (9:10:37 PM): Hrm
spies4Summer (9:10:44 PM): Now there are 13 citizens instead of 14
spies4Summer (9:10:52 PM): The spies have to get the majority over the citizens to win
spies4Masaki (9:11:10 PM): I didn't think of it that way.
spies4Summer (9:11:12 PM): So Kiyoshi's removal meant one less exile THE SPIES had to make it through
spies4Summer (9:11:17 PM): Well that's what it comes down to
spies4Summer (9:11:33 PM): This is why voting Martha over Kiyoshi was beneficial for the spies
spies4Summer (9:11:39 PM): And this is why I am looking at Leon
spies4Summer (9:11:42 PM): Because his vote did that
spies4Summer (9:11:49 PM): Okay?
spies4Masaki (9:11:49 PM): You should be looking at me too, then
spies4Summer (9:11:53 PM): I am
spies4Masaki (9:11:53 PM): I voted Beverly
spies4Summer (9:12:00 PM): Yep
spies4Summer (9:12:06 PM): But we're talking about Leon now
spies4Masaki (9:12:11 PM): Right
spies4Summer (9:12:25 PM): I lost track of what I was saying
spies4Masaki (9:12:37 PM): You suspect Leon is an Orthodoxy because of the Martha vote
spies4Masaki (9:12:43 PM): And because of how he handled the investigation
spies4Summer (9:12:45 PM): Yes that was point #2
spies4Summer (9:13:03 PM): Point #3 - which I realize also applies to you - is that he voted Naomi in exile 5
spies4Summer (9:13:13 PM): Angelica was telling the truth on Naomi
spies4Summer (9:13:18 PM): She was a spy and the orthodoxy spies knew it
spies4Summer (9:13:28 PM): So by voting Naomi, the orthodoxy spies knew they had a sure thing going
spies4Summer (9:14:19 PM): Point #4 is speculation on my part
spies4Summer (9:14:38 PM): So I don't know if I should even say it
spies4Masaki (9:15:00 PM): Well I can't decide for you.
spies4Masaki (9:15:07 PM): hehe
spies4Summer (9:15:20 PM): Looking at the critiques, I get the strong impression that Leon doesn't talk to many people
spies4Summer (9:15:38 PM): But his votes go the right way
spies4Masaki (9:15:50 PM): He doesn't talk a lot
spies4Masaki (9:15:55 PM): Moreso than people like Madison and Abrams
spies4Masaki (9:16:04 PM): But did you notice the same thing with Madison?
spies4Summer (9:16:19 PM): I don't suspect Madison.
spies4Masaki (9:16:18 PM): She knew who to vote the last two episodes and is never around really
spies4Summer (9:16:35 PM): Suspecting Madison, in my eyes, is a dead end.
spies4Masaki (9:16:40 PM): Why?
spies4Summer (9:16:59 PM): Because of how the votes for her played out in round 2
spies4Summer (9:17:07 PM): It's far too tangled for her to be a spy
spies4Masaki (9:18:02 PM): Hmm
spies4Masaki (9:18:02 PM): True
spies4Masaki (9:18:06 PM): looking back
spies4Masaki (9:18:09 PM): Angelica did vote Madison
spies4Summer (9:18:13 PM): So did Naomi
spies4Summer (9:18:17 PM): Madison voted Beverly
spies4Masaki (9:18:21 PM): And in a very dangerous vote for Madison
spies4Summer (9:18:27 PM): Yes
spies4Summer (9:18:40 PM): The other votes from Madison came from, among others, Lloyd and Jeremiah
spies4Summer (9:18:45 PM): Who we know are citizens
spies4Summer (9:19:00 PM): And they were the ones who started the vote
spies4Summer (9:19:05 PM): It looks to me like 2 spies hopped on that bandwagon
spies4Summer (9:19:23 PM): Madison is not a suspect anymore in my eyes.
spies4Summer (9:19:34 PM): And until she does something drastically stupid, she's staying on my citizen list.
spies4Masaki (9:20:04 PM): Ok
spies4Summer (9:20:59 PM): But Leon's not.
spies4Summer (9:21:15 PM): Have you thought of evidence that points to or away from Leon?
spies4Masaki (9:21:57 PM): I did find his reaction to the Singe "investigation" odd, but I didn't think about it in light of what you said about him practically daring someone to investigation him
spies4Masaki (9:22:01 PM): That adds a new twist to things
spies4Masaki (9:22:16 PM): Other actual evidence, however, is a bit harder to come by because I do not get much out of him in conversations
spies4Masaki (9:22:25 PM): So it pretty much leaves what I see him say publicly and votes
spies4Summer (9:22:37 PM): So in other words, you haven't really thought about it
spies4Summer (9:22:45 PM): And you haven't looked into it
spies4Masaki (9:23:17 PM): He hasn't really been on the top of my list
spies4Masaki (9:23:25 PM): Doesn't mean I dismiss him as a possibility
spies4Masaki (9:23:43 PM): The investigation thing is the only thing I had really noticed with him
spies4Summer (9:23:48 PM): So who is at the top of your list, Masaki?
spies4Summer (9:23:57 PM): I've just told you who I suspect and why
spies4Masaki (9:25:02 PM): Other than Cain, hmm, well I would've said Madison, based on how she stays informed, but you have a point with the episode two vote
spies4Summer (9:25:28 PM): Candy keeps her informed.
spies4Masaki (9:25:51 PM): Johan said something kind of bothersome last night
spies4Masaki (9:26:11 PM): He said he just follows Candy's lead, pretty much implying he didn't want to go onto his own path.
spies4Summer (9:26:21 PM): Sigh
spies4Masaki (9:26:23 PM): The guy is too agreeable for my liking all in all though
spies4Masaki (9:26:24 PM): What?
spies4Summer (9:26:31 PM): Another lemming
spies4Masaki (9:26:42 PM): Well it does bother me
spies4Masaki (9:26:53 PM): That's like taking the safe route, always going where the most prominent player goes
spies4Summer (9:27:08 PM): Yes it is
spies4Masaki (9:29:20 PM): I wish Singe would come back, wasn't he suppose to come back today?
spies4Summer (9:29:30 PM): I guess not?
spies4Summer (9:30:23 PM): So other than Madison you didn't suspect any of the other 14 players of being an orthodoxy spy?
spies4Masaki (9:31:12 PM): Faizah maybe because of the convo she posted with Beverly, but that's just speculation
spies4Masaki (9:31:45 PM): What about you? You're trying to grab names from me
spies4Summer (9:31:51 PM): I already said Leon
spies4Summer (9:31:52 PM): And made my case
spies4Summer (9:31:59 PM): You haven't exactly made a case yet
spies4Masaki (9:32:05 PM): I don't exactly have a hardcore case.
spies4Summer (9:32:10 PM): I feel like you're just throwing names out to make me feel like you've answered the question
spies4Masaki (9:32:17 PM): I've been bending over backwards dealing with flak from other players
spies4Summer (9:32:32 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:32:43 PM): But your tone is somewhat hostile
spies4Masaki (9:32:46 PM): I don't exactly appreciate it.
spies4Summer (9:33:33 PM): Sorry
spies4Masaki (9:34:04 PM): Well I mean really, I don't care if you suspect me, but just come out and say it instead of trying to ridicule me
spies4Summer (9:34:26 PM): Well what gets me is you're really excited about voting out an orthodoxy spy over Cain
spies4Summer (9:34:34 PM): But you haven't actually thought of who
spies4Masaki (9:34:48 PM): I just had this idea earlier today
spies4Summer (9:34:54 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:34:59 PM): That's why I came to you and asked for a good place to begin.
spies4Masaki (9:35:12 PM): Not all things are conspiracies, hun
spies4Masaki (9:35:15 PM):
spies4Summer (9:35:29 PM): Sigh
spies4Summer (9:35:45 PM): You had me excited because I thought someone else was thinking a few steps ahead
spies4Summer (9:36:12 PM): And it's hard to know the truth when you have your hopes up.
spies4Masaki (9:36:26 PM): Even if I don't have any leads, the idea in principal is thinking ahead
spies4Masaki (9:36:46 PM): Instead of taking the lesser prize, which is exiling a potential Traditionalist, I am proposing a tool to use beyond this forthcoming episode
spies4Masaki (9:37:15 PM): But I'm getting good feedback, so I can move beyond that point now
spies4Masaki (9:42:15 PM): Anyway, I just want to say I appreciate talking with you. You're very keen with your analysis
spies4Masaki (9:42:39 PM): I'm talking to Leon, he's _opposed_ to my idea
spies4Summer (9:43:17 PM): Thank you, I try to be
spies4Summer (9:43:20 PM): *Giggle*
spies4Summer (8:50:13 PM): Hi Masaki
spies4Masaki (8:50:24 PM): Hey, what're your thoughts on Cain?
spies4Masaki (8:50:36 PM): What do you think the chances of him being the last Traditionalist are?
spies4Summer (8:50:39 PM): There's a very good case for him in the burg
spies4Summer (8:50:49 PM): It would be illogical to ignore something so fact-based
spies4Masaki (8:51:03 PM): I agree on that, but there's a reason I'm asking what you think
spies4Masaki (8:51:19 PM): do you think it's safe to assume he's the last Traditionalist?
spies4Summer (8:51:35 PM): It's not safe to assume anything
spies4Summer (8:51:42 PM): But everything he's done so far fits
spies4Masaki (8:52:00 PM): Right, I agree with you there,
spies4Masaki (8:52:08 PM): Adelaide, however, seems to be dead certain he's the last Trad
spies4Summer (8:52:23 PM): She's been obsessed with the idea of Cain as a spy since round 1
spies4Masaki (8:52:22 PM): But my idea was,
spies4Summer (8:52:30 PM): She even voted for him in round 2
spies4Masaki (8:52:40 PM): It might be best to leave the last Traditionalist alone and focus on the Orthodoxy
spies4Masaki (8:52:56 PM): My reason is that eliminating the last Traditionalist will remove a hindrance for the Spies
spies4Summer (8:53:02 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:53:15 PM): While both groups remain, there is still a chance that they can hit eachother and therefore save us both an imprisonment and an exile
spies4Summer (8:53:35 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:53:49 PM): They save us an imprisonment because they take out a Spy rather than a Citizen, and an exile because we can instead use that exile that would have previously been used on the Spy on someone who we think could be another Spy.
spies4Summer (8:54:00 PM): I see what you're saying
spies4Summer (8:54:15 PM): There's just one small problem
spies4Masaki (8:54:23 PM): So while it might not be safe to assume Cain is the last Traditionalist, I think we should focus on the other team until they are balanced
spies4Masaki (8:54:26 PM): What's that?
spies4Summer (8:54:31 PM): What if it's not Cain after all?
spies4Masaki (8:54:40 PM): Right - we can't assume
spies4Masaki (8:54:50 PM): But don't we have some Orthodoxy suspects?
spies4Summer (8:54:55 PM): Honestly?
spies4Summer (8:55:02 PM): The group in general?
spies4Summer (8:55:02 PM): No
spies4Summer (8:55:13 PM): We've been given the last 3 exiles
spies4Summer (8:55:17 PM): They were handed to us
spies4Masaki (8:55:20 PM): Very true
spies4Summer (8:55:24 PM): Except for Cain, no one else has seriously been considered
spies4Summer (8:55:39 PM): And very few people are contemplating who is an Orthodoxy spy
spies4Summer (8:55:41 PM): Some are
spies4Summer (8:55:43 PM): But as a whole, no
spies4Summer (8:55:52 PM): The group is waiting for someone to be given an investigation
spies4Summer (8:55:57 PM): And that's my view of the truth.
spies4Masaki (8:56:08 PM): Well I'm hoping we have something by next exile
spies4Summer (8:56:15 PM): We won't
spies4Summer (8:56:25 PM): It will be Cain because no one will think of a new idea until he's gone
spies4Masaki (8:56:24 PM): No, no, not an investigation, but some leads at the very least.
spies4Masaki (8:56:30 PM):
spies4Summer (8:56:34 PM): This is why Naomi had to leave
spies4Summer (8:56:45 PM): Because as long as she was still here, no one would focus on who the other spies were
spies4Summer (8:56:54 PM): It will be the same with Cain.
spies4Summer (8:56:55 PM): Just watch.
spies4Summer (8:57:06 PM): I don't approve
spies4Masaki (8:57:13 PM): You do not approve of what?
spies4Summer (8:57:32 PM): Of the group mentality that we only need to think about the next exile and not the next 2 or 3
spies4Masaki (8:58:14 PM): So you're saying you would like to go with the plan, but simply don't think it would fly?
spies4Summer (8:58:32 PM): I'm saying that people need to start talking about the orthodoxy spies now.
spies4Summer (8:58:39 PM): Not after Bunni's trial and Cain leaves
spies4Summer (8:58:40 PM): Now.
spies4Masaki (8:58:43 PM): Right
spies4Masaki (8:58:48 PM): Well Adelaide at least agrees with me
spies4Masaki (8:58:54 PM): I think it's worth a shot
spies4Masaki (8:59:12 PM): We don't accomplish anything by being resigned to what we think will be the outcome
spies4Masaki (8:59:28 PM): We have a tool and we should use it, I think.
spies4Summer (8:59:34 PM): What's the tool?
spies4Masaki (8:59:39 PM): The opposing Spy teams
spies4Summer (8:59:45 PM): Ah
spies4Masaki (8:59:53 PM): If Cain does wind up being the last one, we lose it
spies4Summer (8:59:55 PM): So who do you propose, Masaki?
spies4Summer (9:00:00 PM): If not Cain, then who?
spies4Summer (9:00:01 PM): And why?
spies4Summer (9:00:10 PM): You'll never pull this off without a solid alternative
spies4Masaki (9:00:24 PM): Very true, that's why I asked if we had any suspects, so we should start working on it I think
spies4Masaki (9:00:31 PM): We still have a few days before the next episode begins.
spies4Masaki (9:00:45 PM): We could possibly draw something from the Naomi/Beverly vote
spies4Masaki (9:00:55 PM): But I don't want to falsely accuse anyone, either.
spies4Summer (9:01:14 PM): Then you won't get anywhere.
spies4Masaki (9:01:22 PM): Hm?
spies4Summer (9:01:28 PM): Is Cain being falsely accused?
spies4Summer (9:01:29 PM): I don't know
spies4Summer (9:01:32 PM): But he's being accused
spies4Summer (9:01:40 PM): That's a good thing
spies4Masaki (9:01:49 PM): Well Summer, there is a difference between not wanting to do something, and thus trying your best not to while doing what needs to be done anyway.
spies4Masaki (9:01:51 PM):
spies4Summer (9:02:08 PM): What?
spies4Masaki (9:02:19 PM): I don't want to falsely accuse someone, so I will try my best to accuse accurately
spies4Summer (9:02:29 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:03:01 PM): Anyway, would you mind giving the Orthodoxy some thought yourself over the next few days?
spies4Summer (9:03:17 PM): Already have.
spies4Masaki (9:03:17 PM): I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts
spies4Masaki (9:03:19 PM): Oh?
spies4Summer (9:03:22 PM): Surprise
spies4Masaki (9:03:32 PM): And what've you come up with?
spies4Summer (9:03:38 PM): Leon
spies4Masaki (9:03:44 PM): That's what Adelaide said
spies4Summer (9:03:51 PM): Great minds think alike
spies4Masaki (9:03:55 PM): That's Candy's line
spies4Summer (9:04:05 PM): I don't think she thinks anyone's mind is as great as hers
spies4Masaki (9:04:14 PM): She said it about me when I exposed Angelica's lie!
spies4Summer (9:04:25 PM): Oh
spies4Masaki (9:04:32 PM): Anyway, why Leon?
spies4Masaki (9:04:37 PM): She never got into the why.
spies4Summer (9:04:53 PM): Few reasons
spies4Summer (9:05:01 PM): The way he handled the investigation thread
spies4Summer (9:05:10 PM): "I want someone to investigate me so if I come up a spy I'll know they're lying"
spies4Summer (9:05:21 PM): And then how he had his defense ready when Singe accused him
spies4Summer (9:05:28 PM): By running to Candy and saying Singe must be a spy
spies4Summer (9:05:35 PM): That's #1
spies4Masaki (9:05:37 PM): Oh, right, I forgot about that one.
spies4Summer (9:06:08 PM): #2 being that he was both a vote for Martha in round 1 (sort of)
spies4Summer (9:06:28 PM): All 4 spies so far have shown that exiling Martha was a priority
spies4Masaki (9:06:48 PM): Naomi voted Bev
spies4Masaki (9:06:49 PM): I thought
spies4Summer (9:06:56 PM): You, Naomi, and Leon voted for Beverly which allowed Martha to keep the majority over Kiyoshi
spies4Summer (9:07:06 PM): If you had all voted Kiyoshi Martha would have stayed
spies4Masaki (9:07:09 PM): We were in Martha's family
spies4Masaki (9:07:12 PM): We couldn't vote her
spies4Summer (9:07:15 PM): You had an alternative
spies4Masaki (9:07:16 PM): Oh
spies4Summer (9:07:20 PM): You could have voted Kiyoshi and kept Martha
spies4Summer (9:07:26 PM): If you had the votes woudl have been 16-15
spies4Summer (9:07:29 PM): Kiyoshi - Martha
spies4Masaki (9:07:30 PM): Well, to be fair,
spies4Masaki (9:07:41 PM): In the chat hosted by Jeremiah,
spies4Summer (9:07:47 PM): I read it
spies4Summer (9:07:49 PM): I was there
spies4Masaki (9:07:51 PM): Ok
spies4Summer (9:08:03 PM): It doesn't matter who suggested it, if it was Naomi or him
spies4Summer (9:08:10 PM): He could have suggested it or been thrilled to go along with it
spies4Masaki (9:08:14 PM): We ll we were opposed to the inactive route
spies4Summer (9:08:24 PM): Well Spies generally are
spies4Summer (9:08:39 PM): They had one less citizen to deal with because Kiyoshi's removal was a freebie
spies4Masaki (9:08:40 PM): Reason I was wound up being a valid one, Kiyoshi was force removed and thus saved us an exile
spies4Masaki (9:08:45 PM): Leon had his own reasons though
spies4Summer (9:08:54 PM): It doesn't save you an exile
spies4Masaki (9:09:00 PM): It did
spies4Summer (9:09:02 PM): It gives the spies one less exile to get through
spies4Summer (9:09:09 PM): Right now there are 3 spies left
spies4Summer (9:09:12 PM): And 13 citizens
spies4Summer (9:09:19 PM): If Kiyoshi was still here there would be 14 citizens
spies4Summer (9:09:28 PM): Kiyoshi's removal was a freebie
spies4Masaki (9:09:45 PM): That early in the game, though, there's equal chance of him being a Spy
spies4Masaki (9:09:48 PM): Well not equal
spies4Summer (9:09:54 PM): They didn't know there were 2 spy sides at the time
spies4Masaki (9:09:56 PM): But no less of a chance than if we had exiled someone at random
spies4Summer (9:10:08 PM): What part of this isn't making sense to you?
spies4Summer (9:10:16 PM): Exile 1 - Martha went
spies4Summer (9:10:19 PM): Exile 2 - Grace went
spies4Summer (9:10:24 PM): As a bonus, Kiyoshi was removed
spies4Masaki (9:10:37 PM): Hrm
spies4Summer (9:10:44 PM): Now there are 13 citizens instead of 14
spies4Summer (9:10:52 PM): The spies have to get the majority over the citizens to win
spies4Masaki (9:11:10 PM): I didn't think of it that way.
spies4Summer (9:11:12 PM): So Kiyoshi's removal meant one less exile THE SPIES had to make it through
spies4Summer (9:11:17 PM): Well that's what it comes down to
spies4Summer (9:11:33 PM): This is why voting Martha over Kiyoshi was beneficial for the spies
spies4Summer (9:11:39 PM): And this is why I am looking at Leon
spies4Summer (9:11:42 PM): Because his vote did that
spies4Summer (9:11:49 PM): Okay?
spies4Masaki (9:11:49 PM): You should be looking at me too, then
spies4Summer (9:11:53 PM): I am
spies4Masaki (9:11:53 PM): I voted Beverly
spies4Summer (9:12:00 PM): Yep
spies4Summer (9:12:06 PM): But we're talking about Leon now
spies4Masaki (9:12:11 PM): Right
spies4Summer (9:12:25 PM): I lost track of what I was saying
spies4Masaki (9:12:37 PM): You suspect Leon is an Orthodoxy because of the Martha vote
spies4Masaki (9:12:43 PM): And because of how he handled the investigation
spies4Summer (9:12:45 PM): Yes that was point #2
spies4Summer (9:13:03 PM): Point #3 - which I realize also applies to you - is that he voted Naomi in exile 5
spies4Summer (9:13:13 PM): Angelica was telling the truth on Naomi
spies4Summer (9:13:18 PM): She was a spy and the orthodoxy spies knew it
spies4Summer (9:13:28 PM): So by voting Naomi, the orthodoxy spies knew they had a sure thing going
spies4Summer (9:14:19 PM): Point #4 is speculation on my part
spies4Summer (9:14:38 PM): So I don't know if I should even say it
spies4Masaki (9:15:00 PM): Well I can't decide for you.
spies4Masaki (9:15:07 PM): hehe
spies4Summer (9:15:20 PM): Looking at the critiques, I get the strong impression that Leon doesn't talk to many people
spies4Summer (9:15:38 PM): But his votes go the right way
spies4Masaki (9:15:50 PM): He doesn't talk a lot
spies4Masaki (9:15:55 PM): Moreso than people like Madison and Abrams
spies4Masaki (9:16:04 PM): But did you notice the same thing with Madison?
spies4Summer (9:16:19 PM): I don't suspect Madison.
spies4Masaki (9:16:18 PM): She knew who to vote the last two episodes and is never around really
spies4Summer (9:16:35 PM): Suspecting Madison, in my eyes, is a dead end.
spies4Masaki (9:16:40 PM): Why?
spies4Summer (9:16:59 PM): Because of how the votes for her played out in round 2
spies4Summer (9:17:07 PM): It's far too tangled for her to be a spy
spies4Masaki (9:18:02 PM): Hmm
spies4Masaki (9:18:02 PM): True
spies4Masaki (9:18:06 PM): looking back
spies4Masaki (9:18:09 PM): Angelica did vote Madison
spies4Summer (9:18:13 PM): So did Naomi
spies4Summer (9:18:17 PM): Madison voted Beverly
spies4Masaki (9:18:21 PM): And in a very dangerous vote for Madison
spies4Summer (9:18:27 PM): Yes
spies4Summer (9:18:40 PM): The other votes from Madison came from, among others, Lloyd and Jeremiah
spies4Summer (9:18:45 PM): Who we know are citizens
spies4Summer (9:19:00 PM): And they were the ones who started the vote
spies4Summer (9:19:05 PM): It looks to me like 2 spies hopped on that bandwagon
spies4Summer (9:19:23 PM): Madison is not a suspect anymore in my eyes.
spies4Summer (9:19:34 PM): And until she does something drastically stupid, she's staying on my citizen list.
spies4Masaki (9:20:04 PM): Ok
spies4Summer (9:20:59 PM): But Leon's not.
spies4Summer (9:21:15 PM): Have you thought of evidence that points to or away from Leon?
spies4Masaki (9:21:57 PM): I did find his reaction to the Singe "investigation" odd, but I didn't think about it in light of what you said about him practically daring someone to investigation him
spies4Masaki (9:22:01 PM): That adds a new twist to things
spies4Masaki (9:22:16 PM): Other actual evidence, however, is a bit harder to come by because I do not get much out of him in conversations
spies4Masaki (9:22:25 PM): So it pretty much leaves what I see him say publicly and votes
spies4Summer (9:22:37 PM): So in other words, you haven't really thought about it
spies4Summer (9:22:45 PM): And you haven't looked into it
spies4Masaki (9:23:17 PM): He hasn't really been on the top of my list
spies4Masaki (9:23:25 PM): Doesn't mean I dismiss him as a possibility
spies4Masaki (9:23:43 PM): The investigation thing is the only thing I had really noticed with him
spies4Summer (9:23:48 PM): So who is at the top of your list, Masaki?
spies4Summer (9:23:57 PM): I've just told you who I suspect and why
spies4Masaki (9:25:02 PM): Other than Cain, hmm, well I would've said Madison, based on how she stays informed, but you have a point with the episode two vote
spies4Summer (9:25:28 PM): Candy keeps her informed.
spies4Masaki (9:25:51 PM): Johan said something kind of bothersome last night
spies4Masaki (9:26:11 PM): He said he just follows Candy's lead, pretty much implying he didn't want to go onto his own path.
spies4Summer (9:26:21 PM): Sigh
spies4Masaki (9:26:23 PM): The guy is too agreeable for my liking all in all though
spies4Masaki (9:26:24 PM): What?
spies4Summer (9:26:31 PM): Another lemming
spies4Masaki (9:26:42 PM): Well it does bother me
spies4Masaki (9:26:53 PM): That's like taking the safe route, always going where the most prominent player goes
spies4Summer (9:27:08 PM): Yes it is
spies4Masaki (9:29:20 PM): I wish Singe would come back, wasn't he suppose to come back today?
spies4Summer (9:29:30 PM): I guess not?
spies4Summer (9:30:23 PM): So other than Madison you didn't suspect any of the other 14 players of being an orthodoxy spy?
spies4Masaki (9:31:12 PM): Faizah maybe because of the convo she posted with Beverly, but that's just speculation
spies4Masaki (9:31:45 PM): What about you? You're trying to grab names from me
spies4Summer (9:31:51 PM): I already said Leon
spies4Summer (9:31:52 PM): And made my case
spies4Summer (9:31:59 PM): You haven't exactly made a case yet
spies4Masaki (9:32:05 PM): I don't exactly have a hardcore case.
spies4Summer (9:32:10 PM): I feel like you're just throwing names out to make me feel like you've answered the question
spies4Masaki (9:32:17 PM): I've been bending over backwards dealing with flak from other players
spies4Summer (9:32:32 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:32:43 PM): But your tone is somewhat hostile
spies4Masaki (9:32:46 PM): I don't exactly appreciate it.
spies4Summer (9:33:33 PM): Sorry
spies4Masaki (9:34:04 PM): Well I mean really, I don't care if you suspect me, but just come out and say it instead of trying to ridicule me
spies4Summer (9:34:26 PM): Well what gets me is you're really excited about voting out an orthodoxy spy over Cain
spies4Summer (9:34:34 PM): But you haven't actually thought of who
spies4Masaki (9:34:48 PM): I just had this idea earlier today
spies4Summer (9:34:54 PM): Okay
spies4Masaki (9:34:59 PM): That's why I came to you and asked for a good place to begin.
spies4Masaki (9:35:12 PM): Not all things are conspiracies, hun
spies4Masaki (9:35:15 PM):
spies4Summer (9:35:29 PM): Sigh
spies4Summer (9:35:45 PM): You had me excited because I thought someone else was thinking a few steps ahead
spies4Summer (9:36:12 PM): And it's hard to know the truth when you have your hopes up.
spies4Masaki (9:36:26 PM): Even if I don't have any leads, the idea in principal is thinking ahead
spies4Masaki (9:36:46 PM): Instead of taking the lesser prize, which is exiling a potential Traditionalist, I am proposing a tool to use beyond this forthcoming episode
spies4Masaki (9:37:15 PM): But I'm getting good feedback, so I can move beyond that point now
spies4Masaki (9:42:15 PM): Anyway, I just want to say I appreciate talking with you. You're very keen with your analysis
spies4Masaki (9:42:39 PM): I'm talking to Leon, he's _opposed_ to my idea
spies4Summer (9:43:17 PM): Thank you, I try to be
spies4Summer (9:43:20 PM): *Giggle*