Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 2, 2008 17:22:20 GMT -5
Hmmm... well I can't pick Kip, because Kip was Allison, and I owe her / him. And I can't pick Sherri because she always gets eliminated in the first round anyway, and I don't want to dump on her. And I can't pick Sam because whenever he's a mole / assassin / wolf, I get him in the second round, and I hate being premature. And I can't pick Ralph either, because I don't want to get him framed as a spy - again. And I can't pick Zander because what are the chances of him being scum THREE times in a row? (Remember both Spies and the mini-mafia game.) And given that I played a fairly major role in both the attempted exile of Marion and the actual exile of Miles, I'm not sure I want to make it three for three with Lise. Singe at least is willing to state an opinion of his own, which might be a valuable commodity in this game if he's not scum. So I can't pick him. I obviously can't pick myself, since I'm the judge. So right now, given the total absence of any ideas as to who is or might be mafia from you unhelpful people, I'm stumped! Any ideas would be welcome. Otherwise it looks as though I'm going to have to put up Bev and Faizah for elimination...
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Post by Kate on Jan 2, 2008 19:13:18 GMT -5
Alright.. the way I see it I can't get much of a read yet since there haven't been a lot of posts. The two people who, obviously, stood out so far are you (Martha) and Sam for both wanting to be Judge. The way I see it this could be a method for one of the scum to play the 'over the top' role and I've seen it done before so it obviously makes me think FoS. I'd like to hear from more people what they'd expect, what they'll anticipate and all that jazz. But I have a feeling that there won't be much discussion, if any, until Martha makes her decision and we're playing the role of the Jury.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 2, 2008 19:35:23 GMT -5
I actually think the scum could be the people who were just kind of fluff posting just to post, but that's just me. I would recommend Singe and Sherri (no offense guys), but that's just me. I feel like the scum would be more inclined to follow this game but less inclined to be helpful, but still show their activity. Also there are lots of circumstancial things you posted up there Martha, not saying that's awful but you can't just rule someone out for some of those things But I do like that you're narrowing down "suspects" and choices.
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 3, 2008 0:38:54 GMT -5
OK, it's Thursday now and there have been a few opinions to go on with. Here's my analysis to begin with. LLOYD initially voted for Sam as the judge, then switched to me because "Martha did a good job on her early spy lists". Spies are generally not that indecisive. Lloyd, however, is good enough to fake it if need be. Lloyd's now been replaced by Ralph who hasn't posted yet. I'd like to hear from Ralph. My gut read on Lloyd is citizen. But I've been very, very wrong about him before. SINGE is the only person who's said that he doesn't want the responsibility of being the judge, which sort of says to me that he might be afraid of imprisonment. He voted for Sam, which I rather doubt he'd do if both of them were spies. That said, I said the same thing about Masaki and Naomi voting for Bev in the first round of Spies 4, and I was dead wrong. As for Singe's voting: if there are going to be two patterns of opinion, conventional wisdom would have it that the spies would want a foot in either camp. Singe could be the spies' left foot. But is he that conventional? Smart spies might very well range themselves on one side of a divide and point to the people on the other side of it. Singe doesn't seem to have done this either. My gut says he's sincere. He says he voted Sam for "strategic reasons" and because he likes him. The "liking" part is obvious, but what strategic reasons are there to vote Sam over me? I don't get that. At this point I am wary of Singe, but I see no reason to mark him a spy either. I'm going to tentatively suggest that Singe is a citizen, but I could be overrating him. I thought that Faizah was being almost too obvious to be a spy late on in Spies 4, and she was... LISE seems somewhat disinterested. She pointed out a reason to suspect me, which is odd coming from either a spy or a citizen (given that I'm immune this round and decide on who's up for exile). I don't see that it rules either for or against her. Zander, on the other hand, pointed straight at Sam, who's as much up for the chop as everybody else. Smooth move magic boy. If anything this shows that ZANDER is more cautious than Lise. Mafia may or may not be cautious. Lise suggesting suspicion of me is a stronger move than I'd expect a mafia of her phlegmatic temperament to make. (I thought the same thing about Cain's "Government Files" idea - it seemed a more aggressive play than I could see him making if he was a spy, so I ruled him a likely citizen.) Zander's caution is more suspicious to me. His posts are reasoned, but really don't say that much. Add that to his initial couple of posts and you have what looks like something that could be a genuine scumtell. I'd think it logical for a mafia to remain in the background initially after so many of them gave themselves away in Spies 4... DAMON (or Kate) is well-reasoned, calm and logical, which I'd expect her to be as either a citizen or a mafia member. I have no read here, none whatsoever. My only real thought is that if Damon is a spy, his partner is also likely to be playing a fairly UTR game. I'm not sure either that I buy Damon's argument that Sam or I might be OTT mafia. Having read and enjoyed his posts in the burg, that one seemed uncharacteristic of him. SAM I have some definite suspicions of. If he is a spy, I doubt his partner is either Kip or Singe, and would be very suspicious of Zander and Lise. If one spy campaigns for the position of spy, I would expect the other (publicly at least) to stay out of the debate. He has definitely played a cautious game and not said very much of substance. KIP appears to not care that much. Having seen Matt in action as both a spy and a citizen, this behavior seems to match his citizen persona far more than how he plays as scum. My issue is that Matt is extremely smart and would have no problem playing up his "Kip" persona to give people the impression that he's still the trustworthy citizen. Also, Allison would say "hugs". Of those seven people, five are genuine citizens, two are spies (because obviously I know that I'm not a spy, even if you guys don't). The only person to really catch my suspicion so far, for reasons already given, is Zander. If I had to rank them, I'd do something like this: - Zander, Sam, Damon (possible scum tells) - Kip, Singe (MOR) - Ralph, Lise (possible citizen tells) I apologize right now if Ralph and Lise are the spies... I'm quite liking Zander and either Sam, Damon or Kip as partners. If I were to put up any two of my top five, who would be willing to lawyer them up? And does anybody strongly disagree with what I've said?
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Jan 3, 2008 17:52:08 GMT -5
8 more hours to decide or 2 of Zander, Sam or Damon will be randomly picked.
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 3, 2008 19:12:57 GMT -5
I'm going to pick Zander. I'm going to pick Damon. And then I'm going to bed. Goodnight!
LAWYERS, please!
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Post by Ralph on Jan 3, 2008 20:27:50 GMT -5
hey all super excited to be playing this game!!!!!!!
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 3, 2008 21:21:52 GMT -5
OK, going over the above posts, I'm changing my vote to Zander and Kip. Sorry Ally!
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 3, 2008 23:41:36 GMT -5
Sonofabitch.
I was hoping to not get out first in this game, but if that's how it's gonna go, then let it be. I already know I'm getting two grudge votes, so bring it on lol.
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Post by Ralph on Jan 3, 2008 23:50:18 GMT -5
so now what?
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Martha
Martha
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Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 4, 2008 0:11:58 GMT -5
I believe Zander and Kip need a lawyer each. The winning lawyer gets a bonus, the losing one a penalty.
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Post by Judge Sam on Jan 4, 2008 0:39:06 GMT -5
don't you pick the lawyers too?
also, don't see how you can do massive analysis on what amounts to <100 word posts... I'm waiting until I see some actions / decisions being made before scrutinizing 3 carefully-written sentences to intuit some sort of covert spy anxiety from them.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Jan 4, 2008 8:14:46 GMT -5
[glow=yellow,2,300] TRIAL I COMMENCES[/glow] UP FOR TRIAL: Kip and Zander By the power of Random.org, since Martha did not choose by deadline, SINGE! Will defend Kip. And will receive a prize if he wins. He will receive a punishment if he loses. RALPH! Will defend Zander. And will receive a prize if he wins. He will receive a punishment if he loses. Everyone including Lawyers and Judge must either vote for KIP or ZANDER or NO LYNCH by Sunday (no set time yet). Lawyers try stick up for your guys if you want a prize! Go!
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 4, 2008 10:24:14 GMT -5
don't you pick the lawyers too? also, don't see how you can do massive analysis on what amounts to <100 word posts... I'm waiting until I see some actions / decisions being made before scrutinizing 3 carefully-written sentences to intuit some sort of covert spy anxiety from them. To the first part - nobody's shown support for any of my suspects since I've named them. I asked for volunteers, nobody came up with anything. To the second part - I have nothing else to go on here. It's the first round, there haven't been any actions yet. I've done the best job I could with what little information I had in the first round when I have more suspects and less evidence than any future judge will have. As regards "don't see how I can do massive analysis"; that's completely illogical, considering I've posted the whole thing. I've put my points. It's time for the suspects and the lawyers to do their stuff.
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Singe
Singe
Roadkill
Posts: 250
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Post by Singe on Jan 4, 2008 12:21:53 GMT -5
Before I defend Kip, I would like to call a few witnesses, your honor. Actually, I'd like to call all of them. Dear Burg, How would you each vote at this instant, before any legal arguments take place, and why? Love and xoxos, Barrister Singe ps. Complete summary of my client's three prior statements in this game, for your perusal: I also have my role, as for Judge, I'd have to think it over. I don't want to just hand it to Martha because she was the first to say she wanted it. Not good if we give it to a Mafia. Martha's fine I guess. *hugs* pps. Kip has always been nice to everyone and Zander is occasionally a doodyhead, though I don't think he WANTS to be a doodyhead.
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Post by Ralph on Jan 4, 2008 13:09:33 GMT -5
Zanders Defense Being first round there is not a lot to go by but here i go
OK basically when i look at the posts made by zander and kip! Out of those posts if i had to pick one scum possibility it would be Kip hands down. he hasnt posted much one way or the other now granted i am NEW to the spies realm but i know that mafia usually kinda likes to sit back and watch the first couple of rounds maybe pointing one or two fingers here to show there activity when zander on the other hand has given some addition to the conversations and possibilitys of helping us catch a spy. The second reason is honestly in my spy list i am not sure if either of these two people are spies it being first round i am waiting to see exile votes and stuff until i make my final desicioni but i think that Zander would be more helpful as citizen than kip and would hate to give that chance up
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Post by Ralph on Jan 4, 2008 13:10:09 GMT -5
so there is youre mistype runon ralph defense...
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 13:12:28 GMT -5
*Cries* So I know you hate me Ralph, but how about a little help over here?
And Singe, I would agree that Kip is always nice but not everyone does, so before you basically say stuff like "Zander is more of an asshole than Kip" please add IMO to it. I don't consider me tirading against Damon being a "doodyhead" I consider it just and more than deserved. Thanks.
*EDIT*
And the only reason I bring ^ that up is because it has nothing to do with the game and I don't understand why you had to bring it up in the first place? Cool.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 13:16:55 GMT -5
Zanders Defense Being first round there is not a lot to go by but here i go OK basically when i look at the posts made by zander and kip! Out of those posts if i had to pick one scum possibility it would be Kip hands down. he hasnt posted much one way or the other now granted i am NEW to the spies realm but i know that mafia usually kinda likes to sit back and watch the first couple of rounds maybe pointing one or two fingers here to show there activity when zander on the other hand has given some addition to the conversations and possibilitys of helping us catch a spy. The second reason is honestly in my spy list i am not sure if either of these two people are spies it being first round i am waiting to see exile votes and stuff until i make my final desicioni but i think that Zander would be more helpful as citizen than kip and would hate to give that chance up Thanks man I didn't see your post when I made mine lol so disregard me asking you to help me
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 13:22:28 GMT -5
don't you pick the lawyers too? also, don't see how you can do massive analysis on what amounts to <100 word posts... I'm waiting until I see some actions / decisions being made before scrutinizing 3 carefully-written sentences to intuit some sort of covert spy anxiety from them. To the first part - nobody's shown support for any of my suspects since I've named them. I asked for volunteers, nobody came up with anything. To the second part - I have nothing else to go on here. It's the first round, there haven't been any actions yet. I've done the best job I could with what little information I had in the first round when I have more suspects and less evidence than any future judge will have. As regards "don't see how I can do massive analysis"; that's completely illogical, considering I've posted the whole thing. I've put my points. It's time for the suspects and the lawyers to do their stuff. Oh please, David. You asked for ideas, I gave them, and you nominated me in return. Don't play dumb, you were begging for someone to play into it and the second I wanted to be helpful you turned it on me. If you want people to help you out then why would you sit there and go "Okay thanks for helping. I NOMINATE ZANDER" in return?
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Post by Ralph on Jan 4, 2008 16:40:52 GMT -5
the whole kip is nicer just cause he is nice dosent mean he is cit.....i have seen nice mafia before
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 4, 2008 16:59:40 GMT -5
To the first part - nobody's shown support for any of my suspects since I've named them. I asked for volunteers, nobody came up with anything. To the second part - I have nothing else to go on here. It's the first round, there haven't been any actions yet. I've done the best job I could with what little information I had in the first round when I have more suspects and less evidence than any future judge will have. As regards "don't see how I can do massive analysis"; that's completely illogical, considering I've posted the whole thing. I've put my points. It's time for the suspects and the lawyers to do their stuff. Oh please, David. You asked for ideas, I gave them, and you nominated me in return. Don't play dumb, you were begging for someone to play into it and the second I wanted to be helpful you turned it on me. If you want people to help you out then why would you sit there and go "Okay thanks for helping. I NOMINATE ZANDER" in return? Nope. Didn't nominate you because of your ideas. Nominated you because I thought a spy would be VERY UTR in the early part of the game, and you were until either you got into the game or I called you out (not sure which). You haven't convinced me, but neither has anybody else... all I can say is that you look more promising as a possibility than Lise did, for reasons given above. I give you at least some credit for speaking up for yourself now, which Kip hasn't done yet. Ralph also makes one good point which is that if you are a citizen - and from my POV there's a 5/7 chance of that as I've not ruled a single person out yet - going on the posts so far, you'd be a more helpful one than Kip. I'm bearing that one in mind. (In other words, Kip, get yer ass out here!) BTW nice job Ralph.
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Post by Judge Sam on Jan 4, 2008 17:04:45 GMT -5
Ralph's eloquent defense has persuaded me to vote Kip.
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Martha
Martha
Rabbit Catcher
Posts: 310
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Post by Martha on Jan 4, 2008 17:17:50 GMT -5
While still keeping in mind the possibility that Sam and Zander are spies together, I also think agree with Sam (assuming he's a cit) that Ralph (assuming he's a cit) has made some good points about Zander (assuming he's a cit). So I'm casting my vote at this point for Kip.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Jan 4, 2008 17:37:43 GMT -5
Everyone is doing absolutely great!
Two rules: -Vote here in the topic by putting your vote in Bold. You may change your vote before deadline. -Even if the winning lawyer is imprisoned, their defendant will receive the prize. This stops mafia killing people becuase they have prizes.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 17:39:27 GMT -5
Dave, please note that I didn't get involved in the game because when I signed up there was clearly a lull in the gameplay and then the whole Kate/Damon drama went down and I didn't initially intend to return to the boards. I didn't come back around when you "accused" me. If you can't see that then I at least ask you to go back through the thread and notice that.
Also around the initial point in time when I came back the game was on a break and the only posts were basically with Singe and Kip and Sherri all making fluff (another reason why way up ^ there I recommended them).
My problem wasn't with you nominating me, but you complaining that nobody said diddly when Kate and I clearly spoke up to offer up our opinions and then you later said nobody even spoke their mind.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 17:43:55 GMT -5
I guess since it seems like I'm supposed to vote too I'll vote for Kip . Not much of an option here... My gut is telling me he's not a mafia but I don't wanna go either so... Yeah.
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Singe
Singe
Roadkill
Posts: 250
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Post by Singe on Jan 4, 2008 18:32:11 GMT -5
OK, Ralph stole my thunder, so I retract my previous question to the Burg.
The defense of Kip begins now.
Martha, please analyze Zander's posts, all of them, in exquisite detail. Then please explain why you found him one of your top three candidates for Spy, but changed your mind after Ralph's one paragraph defense.
Zander, who are the two "grudge votes" you mentioned in an earlier post?
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Singe
Singe
Roadkill
Posts: 250
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Post by Singe on Jan 4, 2008 18:54:31 GMT -5
Also, Zander, did you recommend Exiling players who posted fluff in the early days of Spies3 and Spies4? Why or why not?
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Jan 4, 2008 18:56:36 GMT -5
... Isn't it your job to analyze my posts? You summarized them but definitely didn't "analyze them in exquisite detail"... Not saying you really could, either. Which, in my eyes, is that much more incriminating... Anyway, the two "grudge votes" I thought I would receive were from Ralph and Damon. However, now that Ralph is my lawyer, I don't think he'll be voting for me, and I am not sure exactly what's going to come out of all of the arguments. I just basically assumed that since I wasn't on good terms with these two, I would be an easy vote for them to make. Singe I haven't seen you do anything yet to defend Kip so if you're actually defending Kip, you may want to start, as you just said you would. Unless my aforementioned suspicion is right and you really don't care if Kip goes or not considering you could very well be a spy. Just sayin'
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