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Post by Ralph on Feb 4, 2008 8:56:40 GMT -5
OK i am going to change my vote based ona mistake i made in spies 4 i am going to get rid of the inactive player for secveral reasons.... 1) one the evidence against everyone is still somewhat weak and not damming for anyone particular 2)i would not want to risk chacne that addy lloyd or singe are citizens and get rid of a key power player in this (i dont want to evect them on weak evidence and they could have been a major help down the road 3)we can enver pull evidence from an inactive which coulod be just as dangerous as a active
i vote ABRAMS
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 9:21:34 GMT -5
I SENT IT TO ZANDER AND KIP!!!!!!!!
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 9:35:40 GMT -5
Oh boy I'm digging myself a hole here.
To Singe: I can see where you are getting the me/Lloyd pairing but I geniuinely thought that Lloyd pulled out of my game for being a spy and thought the sasme applied here.
Secondly I never got a PM from Lloyd so I had no idea he was pulling a scheme. My scheme was a bit half assed but you have to understand that I was on a different wavelength to you. You were just having your first postings of the game while I was already delved in ready to catch spies and analyse and create discussions (admitedly quite early).
My PM to Zander and Kip was an irrational move (I got the idea from another site) which coincidentally happened at the same time as Lloyd's.
It is fair enough if you suspect me because of my own shortcomings but I don't want to be eliminated because of the fact that I am not a spy just a really dumb cit. If I had a role I'd be THIS close >< to claiming if I was in danger of being eliminated.
Some interesting things to note: -Kip led everyone to believe he never received my PM probably in a case of disinterest or "Oh Adelaide what are you doing?" He basically just brused my PM over. Fair enough. -However, this eliminates a Masaki/Kip spy pairing because if the two of them were working together then Masaki wouldn't have stated my PM to Zander only as a reason to vote me. -To play devil's advocate, as WIFOM as it sounds I wonder if Masaki would really late vote like he did or was he trying to push the deadline.
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Masaki
Masaki
One Sexy Spy
Posts: 409
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Post by Masaki on Feb 4, 2008 10:22:12 GMT -5
~~~~Lloyd~~~~
How do you know they are not thinking along the same lines as you are? That's what WIFOM leads to. In order for you to know what the Mafia did last night, you must know what their intentions are, and since you do not know what that is, you get led into an infinite loop of circular logic.
What bothers me is not that you believe in a possibility that I think is impossible, because quite honestly, I think you could very well be right. However, it bothers me that you are jumping to the conclusion that one of those three who were injured was indeed Mafia. In fact, what you later theorize about the Mafia bringing the numbers down at an even pace disturbs the logic even further - since you think they're going to be killing everyone off at an even rate anyway, who is to say that they rigged the order to fit only one in last night, instead of two or zero, and instead wait for another night?
Furthermore, within the same assumption you have made with regards to Mafia targetting themselves during the night, you are also assuming that the Mafia will not target themselves during the day. So you have now stacked one assumption on top of another.
In my opinion, you're jumping the gun and assuming far too much.
Why?
~~~~Singe~~~~
Well, we get two lynches per day, and the deadline is coming up very quickly(< 24 hours from my post). I had planned on voting Adelaide anyway, and that did not hinder discussion.
Wait, what? Are you talking about the PM Adelaide sent out?
~~~~Adelaide~~~~
Sorry, you did mention that and I did miss it.
~~~~Ralph~~~~
i read ur pots and ti waqs ablast btu u arre wrongn wen u imlpy that theer is litleltle to go ons so far
Love ya man.
~~~~Adelaide~~~~
Mind explaining this? Did Lloyd truly quit out of your game __BECAUSE__ he was Mafia? Were there no other factors involved?
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Post by Ralph on Feb 4, 2008 10:43:40 GMT -5
~~~~Ralph~~~~
i read ur pots and ti waqs ablast btu u arre wrongn wen u imlpy that theer is litleltle to go ons so far
Love ya man.
love ya too!
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Singe
Singe
Roadkill
Posts: 250
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Post by Singe on Feb 4, 2008 10:44:21 GMT -5
Addy, it actually doesn't really make sense that you and Lloyd are a pairing, because I think if you were, he would have noticed that you were lynched and he would have commented on it one way or the other.
I find it strange that he breezed right over it without attacking Masaki--if Lloyd's a Cit and really thinks you're a Cit, he'd have made an observation. Instead, he continues his focused attack on me, in a seeming attempt to win your confidence while not really analyzing the most important events of the game. That lack of continuity gives me reason to doubt the sincerity of his professed "plan".
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Singe
Singe
Roadkill
Posts: 250
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Post by Singe on Feb 4, 2008 11:22:41 GMT -5
If this was a vote to eliminate you totally Singe I wouldn't be doing ANY of this. In fact this is a prime example of how lives affect a game, its lead me to doing things I wouldn't do otherwise because the simple premise of maybe eliminating a potential great citizen would stop me from plotting to catch spies and just lead me to posting inane comments. Actually, Addy, it WAS a vote to eliminate me totally. How did you not notice that? If you convinced two people to join you and Lloyd, I'd die tonight. I can't think of a reason for mafia to pass on finishing off someone with two hits on them--one less Cit vote the next day, one less possible role to deal with, it's a no-brainer.
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Hannah
Hannah
The Carb Catcher
Posts: 28
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Post by Hannah on Feb 4, 2008 11:30:12 GMT -5
Aside from all this strange behaviour of addy's for a moment, does anyone have any idea where on earth Abrams is? Is he seriously going to idle out again?
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 12:22:27 GMT -5
If Adelaide sent it to both Kip and I, WHY didn't Kip mention anything about receiving it when he had plenty of time to?
My vote stands.
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Masaki
Masaki
One Sexy Spy
Posts: 409
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Post by Masaki on Feb 4, 2008 12:32:21 GMT -5
Zander, are you proposing that Adelaide and Kip are scum together?
Kip, did Adelaide send you a PM?
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Lloyd
Lloyd
FREEZE! Drama poilce
Posts: 306
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Post by Lloyd on Feb 4, 2008 12:35:44 GMT -5
A large part of Singe's defense is that the spies want him out. I believe this is BS. Unless there is any indication that he has a role, or that he has the trust of the majority of players, the spies would want to keep him in this and pan out everyones lives. The same can be said for everyone else in this game.
I'll try to put it as my philosophy teacher would.
When a player loses all three lives, they are removed and cardflipped. When a player is cardflipped, we receive valuable information.
Conclusion: When a player loses all three lives, we gain valuable information.
Therefore, the spies want everyone in this as long as possible. The only exception would be if someone claimed a role, or gained the trust of the majority of players. Neither of which has been done by you, Singe.
"* Lloyd parrots Adelaide's claim that I've posted nothing of substance, when actually I posted a relevant attack on Addy, which he entirely ignores."
I did? I don't remember accusing you of posting nothing of substance.
* Lloyd's hinting at copness in an attempt to intimidate myself and others from voting him.
I didn't hint at copness, I was explaining how my strategy is meant to unnerve spies by making the think I could be cop. And an interesting tidbit, you assumed I was hinting at cop. Could it be because I happened to target your partner with a random vote? Only time will tell.
Welcome to Fantasyland.
Welcome? I believe we have already been there since Ralph investigated and led the lynch on his spy partner in Addy's game.
* Masaki just lynched Addy with a pretty hasty 4th vote, and it looks like Lloyd didn't attack Masaki for it.
First of all, I didn't notice the vote in that post. Second, I wouldn't have voted for Masaki even if I did see it. Voting for Addy was one of the smaller reasons I suspect you. The others are what convinced me to vote for you.
@ Masaki about WIFOM, etc.
Pretty much everything short of 100% guaranteed facts can be considered WIFOM, so IMO calling WIFOM is pointless. If you could go the game without using WIFOM you would either not be presenting evidence, or relying on objective info like investigations (which even then could be considered subjective based on the source).
Basically, what I am saying is that pretty much all logic could be considered WIFOM. So unless you have objective proof, bandwagon, or go to random.org, you are gonna have to use WIFOM logic.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 12:47:39 GMT -5
I didn't think of the possibility of getting a night kill tbh Singe, sorry.
At the same time I wish I wasn't backing down from argument so easily as 4 votes for you this round could mean; 1) if you're Mafia, A) The chance to eliminate a Mafia or B) The chance to see if you are night killed with 1 life left, if you aren't then you look very scummy
HOWEVER or 2) if you're a citizen; A) the Mafia could kill you and we lose a great citizen, B) the mafia could keep you alive to frame you.
So in conclusion, I have to be careful what I say about you and if I vote for you. unvote: Singe.
However, Im keeping my eye on you ;D. Perhaps for a first round I should concentrate on defending my citizen self and go after the useless idles or the inane posters who I always have thing against.
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Masaki
Masaki
One Sexy Spy
Posts: 409
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Post by Masaki on Feb 4, 2008 13:10:31 GMT -5
No, I don't have proof. However, as I have stated before, disproving the scenario you're accepting as true is not my objective. My point is that the scenario that you are assuming to be true is done with just as little proof and it is therefore just as likely to be untrue.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 13:10:34 GMT -5
To Masaki: On AIM he said "shit dint want to be lots of pressure". Then when he quit he cited that for many reasons he couldnt play and I jumped to the conclusion that it was cos he didnt want to be mafia cos he was too busy with other things.
I'm thinking now that maybe I should look at everyone else as possible Spies, I've been too Singe-centric;
Abrams - Did he even get his identity yet? Hannah - Not enough to go on. Like earlier I find that suspcious, more on her later. Lloyd - His PM strategy could be a way to make him seem citty to players who know him like Zander. He hasn't done anything that seems scummy to me though. Singe - Jumped out at the start for me because it seemed uncharacteristic of him to say so little. Has since defended himself well to the point where I'm leaving my Singe Attack alone and regretting it. Was one of the Night Kills which in my eyes actually can make players suspicious. However I doubt that someone as smart as Singe at Mafia would do something that obvious (WIFOM). Or maybe it is a smart thing to do...... Zander - Another Night Kill victim. Hasn't done anything to scummy so far. Kip - Another Night Kill victim. More on him later. Masaki - WIFOM alert: His quick lynch or "snipe" on me would be too obvious also. Seemed to geniuinely miss that I said I PMed Kip. Cant find much scummy things as of yet (it is after all Day 1). Ralph - In my game he said things like "Oh sorry to see Lise go" and other kinda scummy things that only Singe and I seemed to notice (he still did an AMAZING job). This game he seems to be different. He's taking a smart approach along with Hannah, why should people like me and others be jumping down each others throats when Abrams is idling? Not a reason to let him off, I know, but perhaps it is way too early to be at each other like this although it is almost entirely my fault.
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Kip
Kip
The Spy Catcher ~ Prince Kip
Posts: 196
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Post by Kip on Feb 4, 2008 13:52:58 GMT -5
To confirm, Adelaide did send it to me. I never look delete my PMs, and I never look at them, so I never noticed it until she mentioned it the other day. I was gone almost all of yesterday, so I didn't notice she was asked about it either.
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Lloyd
Lloyd
FREEZE! Drama poilce
Posts: 306
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Post by Lloyd on Feb 4, 2008 13:59:56 GMT -5
No, I don't have proof. However, as I have stated before, disproving the scenario you're accepting as true is not my objective. My point is that the scenario that you are assuming to be true is done with just as little proof and it is therefore just as likely to be untrue. The reason why I believe that they would injure 1 and not 2 or 0 of their spies is this. There are two possible conclusions that people could draw from the three people being hit. 1) The spies wouldn't hit themselves, they need all the lives they can get. So lets remove these 3 from our immediate suspect list. 2) The spies wouldn't risk being left out of a scenario that could result in them looking citty, so they would hurt themselves. If the spies assume scenario 1, then they would hurt both of their spies. If the spies assume scenario 2, they would hurt all citz and let their be cit on cit violence. But the most advantageous thing to do was to not put all their eggs in one basket, and instead go halfway, and hurt just one of their spies. While I am not saying that this happened, I am saying that it is the most likely. Its the safest thing to do. Hurting both your own is too risky as it eliminates 2/6 of the spies' lives. Hurting all citz is to risky as all it takes is one person to suggest "Lets trust all the victims", then they have 3 less citz to hide behind. I'm not saying that this is solid evidence of anything, I admit it is pretty hard to predict, but what I guarantee you is that its better than a random vote, its better than a bandwagon vote, its better than a vote based on a PM that could be interpreted numerous ways. On top of that, thats not even my main reason I am targeting Singe (although it is directly related to my main reason). To reiterate, my main reason is It is advantageous for us to finish someone off. Lets put aside all that "we are losing a valuable player" BS. Have confidence in your own skill. I guarantee you there are at least 3 other players that could do just as well as Singe. Unless he has a role, there is no reason why he is more valuable than anyone else. (barring an inactive) And I just realized that I have been assuming something for this whole round. Ross, how will Abrams be handled if he doesn't show up.My initial assumption was host removal, as is done where I usually play, but I forgot that not everyone plays the same. If it is guaranteed that he will be host removed, there is no reason to waste votes on him.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:09:50 GMT -5
I'm still holding strong to the idea that after being attacked by me, Adelaide NOW comes forward that she sent the PM to both Kip and myself. Doesn't seem right. And then suddenly Kip follows along "Oh yeah I got it but I guess I never checked it my bad".
SPY SPY SPY SPY SPY SPY SPY.
I won't let this go... I'll be damned if I'm wrong about this not adding up.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:25:18 GMT -5
Zander I said days and days ago that I sent it to Kip check it up (I'll look now). And you are being awfully quick to damn me which can be seen as suspicious.
By the way the spies could just be sitting back while we all have a blood bath you know.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:27:30 GMT -5
It was sent to Kip and Zander. Page 2 about 5 posts after you exposed the PM Zander.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:27:33 GMT -5
Zander I said days and days ago that I sent it to Kip check it up (I'll look now). And you are being awfully quick to damn me which can be seen as suspicious. By the way the spies could just be sitting back while we all have a blood bath you know. YOU SENT ME A PM ASKING ME TO KEEP FAKE FIGHTING BECAUSE YOU PLANNED ON JUST SITTING BACK UNTIL ABRAMS SAID SOMETHING AND YOU WOULD ATTACK HIM. THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE REGARDLESS OF IF YOU SENT IT TO ME, ME AND KIP, OR MOTHER THERESA. The title alone is the most damning evidence one needs. And there is no justification in sending it to me unless you accidentally sent it to me.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:29:52 GMT -5
You had plenty of time to come up with that as a passive excuse, too, Adelaide. Kip came on and attacked me, then you came on and posted some nonsense and avoided the topic of whether you PMed Kip or not. THEN you came out and said you PMed both of us and Kip magically didn't check it.
Doesn't add up in the slightest. I still don't understand your reasoning for telling us to keep "fake fighting" when I certainly wasn't faking any of my suspicions.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:43:48 GMT -5
I presumed that you can see message recipitents of a PM. I sent about 12 PMS in Spies 4 so I wouldn't know. It wasn't sent to you accidentally. It was badly worded. What I meant to say was for the two of you to keep your burning discussion going and notice that Singe isn't saying anything which is highly uncharacteristic. I said "faux" because I should have said "even if the discussion is coming to a close we should keep going with discussion and watch for Singe's reactions and posts because I am highly suspicious of him". All in all it was a really stupid PM. I don't want to be tarnished with the "stupid cit" brush when I'm lynched (I deserve it though). My only excuse is that I'm sick and haven't been thinking things through (being corrupted by Facebook Mafia).
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:47:11 GMT -5
Singe.
We need someone to lose all 3 lives immediately. I'm willing to push my biggest suspicion aside for the time being to accomplish that.
We need 4 votes on Singe and we need them asap.
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Post by Ralph on Feb 4, 2008 14:48:02 GMT -5
I am keeping my vote at abrams because yes i see some evidence against both but none of it is really condeming enough i would like to wait and try to force the mafia to make some more moves where i can begin to compile more evidence
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Post by Ralph on Feb 4, 2008 14:48:48 GMT -5
right now i am not going to reward inactivity which coudl eb disguised as game play i mean think about it you got everyone blowing up at eacjh other it is smart to just not say anythinga nd coast to the end....
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:50:14 GMT -5
Ralph. There is a vigilante in this game and I know who they are. It is crucial that we get enough votes on Singe because tonight, the vigilante will take him out of the game if he only has one life left.
For anybody wondering, yes, I am the only person the vigilante has contacted and they gave me specific instructions to recruit votes on Singe.
I'm imploring you, Ralph, that a vote on Abrams is absolutely useless. He will not gather 4 votes and we would have better odds at having him host removed thtan we would making him lose lives.
Usually I'm one that would rather vote out inactives (Check Spies 3), but this is a situation that calls for more dire circumstances.
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Zander
Zander
The MISTAKI Catcher
Posts: 451
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Post by Zander on Feb 4, 2008 14:52:00 GMT -5
Just to clarify, your one vote on him is not enough to get him to lose a life. It is basically useless at this point, and your vote going to either Singe or Adelaide would help the humans with revealing alignment far more than voting for Abrams when it will do 0 damage. Let Ross remove Abrams if need be.
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:55:48 GMT -5
Singe. We need someone to lose all 3 lives immediately. I'm willing to push my biggest suspicion aside for the time being to accomplish that. We need 4 votes on Singe and we need them asap. Whoa whoa whoa. Where did this come from? :S Remember I unvoted him...
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:56:53 GMT -5
Oh right yeah read the other posts. DURHHH
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Adelaide
Adelaide
Heroin Addict Pink Elephant Catcher
Posts: 280
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Post by Adelaide on Feb 4, 2008 14:59:20 GMT -5
Is the vigilante doing this to reveal Singe's allignment? I need more explanation on this before I do more irrational moves since I'm threading on eggshells right now. Sorry Zander to make you do this. I'm going to wait a while before I decide on Singe.
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